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Voice of the People

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Voice of the People

Post by drainey on Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:29 pm

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by JoelKizz on Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:43 pm

Ok, your not asking about actual voting but just about polling? Like a government website where ideas could be posted by John Q Public and then everyone else could vote on the merits of the idea (1 vote per citizen)?

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by drainey on Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:45 pm

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by XianSmitherman on Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:17 pm

I would say no because then all it would be is a convenience sample, and as someone that works with samples, I can say that convenience samples are complete junk. Gallup, Rasmussen, and the like are in business because they get a representative sample of the whole country, more accurately recording the moods of the people. This would be an internet convenience sample and it would be heavily skewed towards a younger, more liberal-leaning demographic. It would essentially be the same as just funding a website for the DNC itself. My tax dollars have a better use.

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by JoelKizz on Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:50 pm

XianSmitherman wrote:I would say no because then all it would be is a convenience sample, and as someone that works with samples, I can say that convenience samples are complete junk. Gallup, Rasmussen, and the like are in business because they get a representative sample of the whole country, more accurately recording the moods of the people. This would be an internet convenience sample and it would be heavily skewed towards a younger, more liberal-leaning demographic. It would essentially be the same as just funding a website for the DNC itself. My tax dollars have a better use.
What if it was mandatory? Like maybe, if you don't offer opinions on the issues you cant vote in the general election?

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by drainey on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:31 pm

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by Jeremyshall on Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:24 pm

I am just getting through this now. So, is this idea basically "american idol" for politicians? A way to get an instant pulse, so to speak, on ideas?

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by drainey on Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:33 am

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by JoelKizz on Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:17 pm

drainey wrote:Our current system is very much American Idol. The audience has only token input over very limited choices, but the show promotes the idea that America decides the contest. And Fox rakes in money from advertisers for as long as they can make the show last.

Under the system I am proposing, the viewers could decide who was allowed on as a contestant from the beginning. Or not. The viewers could have as much or as little input as they desired. There would be no multiple voting allowed. The initial songs that the candidates would pick would already be submitted to a separate web site, showing how many people voted on a song choice and what percentage of them wanted it. The audience could propose new judges, vote on whether they agreed with their assessment of an Idol candidate, and express their desire to fire a judge, a desire that would build if that judge constantly defied the will of the American Idol audience.

An Idol candidates would know that 78 percent of their audience wants to hear them sing "Boy named Sue" by Johnny Cash. The candidate may have wanted to sing "I'm a little Teapot" because it plays to his strengths and he doesn't want to risk singing a song that he may fail at. But in not doing what his audience requests, and they know how many of them requested a Cash song, the candidate risks getting voted out of the competition no matter how well he sang about a teapot. Because under this system, it ain't about him or what he wants.

I like it in theory but again it sounds a bit too much like a direct democracy. This would destroy a "representative republic" and replace it with "majority rules". Democracy is exactly one type of government the formation of the constitution was trying to ward off. Now break this down into a State by State system used to elect representatives and I’m leaning a bit closer.

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by JoelKizz on Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:18 pm

drainey wrote:What if it were a private venture? And you don't need all American citizens to vote in it. Just give me, for the sake of argument, that you could get 87 million citizens to join. They wouldn't vote in large numbers on most things. But they would on the bigger issues. Would that shift politics for better or worse.
How many people would have to join where it became more than a convenience sample?
BTW, as a polling system, Im all for it. I thought we were back on the actual elections being run this way.

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by drainey on Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:49 am

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by JoelKizz on Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:46 pm

drainey wrote:No, I should have never asked you about direct democracy. There must be a barrier between the people and making laws. Just look at the ballot initiatives in California as an example.
Exactly, thanks Progressive movement. Daniel methinks were are closer politically than I first suspected.

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by drainey on Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:01 am

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by JoelKizz on Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:30 am

drainey wrote:How would it change things? Would it break the death grip on our system that both parties have? Would it change how political campaigns are run?
I suppose, presuming you could guarantee citizen involvement. That is my whole thing on this... don't things like this exist already but they are just neglected by the citizenry?

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by drainey on Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:40 am

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by Jeremyshall on Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:37 pm

What about being able to stack the system somehow? Get a large enough block of people to vote on it, just by peer pressure, or marketing, etc. Like how we all voted for the Birmingham singer on Idol, just because of his hometown...

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by drainey on Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:40 am

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by JoelKizz on Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:44 am

Jeremyshall wrote:What about being able to stack the system somehow? Get a large enough block of people to vote on it, just by peer pressure, or marketing, etc. Like how we all voted for the Birmingham singer on Idol, just because of his hometown...
As it stands now Im happy they dont work more days. Were there not in session at least they cant accelerate the demise.

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Re: Voice of the People

Post by JoelKizz on Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:45 am

drainey wrote:It could stack early, before you get to 87 million. Once you get that high I would think you would have a greater problem getting wide participation. You would get a lot of votes on things like TARP and Iraq and healthcare. I am more interested on the effect on politicians.
Does this 87 million number have any significance or was it strictly pulled from thin air? Seems rather precise to be just randomly picked.

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