How Should We Then Live?

Guns

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

Guns

Post by Spinks on Sun May 06, 2012 11:22 pm

I came across this article today. I know that I've talked guns with at least one member of this forum. In the most civil way possible, how does everyone feel?

http://blog.al.com/archiblog/2012/05/gun_problem_is_a_first_amendme.html


____________________
Bill
avatar
Spinks

Posts : 46
Join date : 2012-05-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by Spinks on Thu May 10, 2012 11:41 pm


____________________
Bill
avatar
Spinks

Posts : 46
Join date : 2012-05-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by Jeremyshall on Thu May 10, 2012 11:51 pm

Both articles are interesting. I listened to this from john piper the other day, and while I haven't changed my personal stance on guns, it did give me some food for thought
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLJacZ0EHQU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

____________________
Jeremy
avatar
Jeremyshall

Posts : 102
Join date : 2012-03-02
Age : 42

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by JoelKizz on Fri May 11, 2012 12:10 am

Will read both tonight...looking forward to them.

____________________
Joel Kizzy
avatar
JoelKizz
Admin

Posts : 187
Join date : 2012-02-28
Age : 40
Location : Tuscaloosa, AL

http://thenlive.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by JoelKizz on Fri May 11, 2012 12:11 am

Jeremyshall wrote:and while I haven't changed my personal stance on guns,

Which is...

____________________
Joel Kizzy
avatar
JoelKizz
Admin

Posts : 187
Join date : 2012-02-28
Age : 40
Location : Tuscaloosa, AL

http://thenlive.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by Jeremyshall on Fri May 11, 2012 9:33 am

I think guns are a tool to protect my family. If I have to make a choice between protecting my family and anyone or anything else, family will always trump. I would not shoot someone with murderous intent, but I would try to maximize the potential for threat reduction (read: center-mass). They are also an enjoyable hobby.

____________________
Jeremy
avatar
Jeremyshall

Posts : 102
Join date : 2012-03-02
Age : 42

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by drainey on Tue May 15, 2012 7:52 pm

`


Last edited by drainey on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

____________________
Daniel
avatar
drainey

Posts : 73
Join date : 2012-03-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by Jeremyshall on Wed May 16, 2012 12:39 pm

Now you have to tell the story of why you shot over a car!!!

____________________
Jeremy
avatar
Jeremyshall

Posts : 102
Join date : 2012-03-02
Age : 42

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by Spinks on Wed May 16, 2012 9:56 pm

drainey wrote:I respect piper's approach to it. If someone like him doesn't know what to do with a gun, they should not own it. I would be careful about leaving the house and shooting into a car driving away. Unless you meant to shoot over the car, as I have done. So much more effective when the bullet whizzes over a person's head.

If a person owns a gun, or is considering owning a gun, and doesn't know what to do with it he should seek training in the matter. It's like driving a car. No one gets behind the wheel and hits the freeway. Most often, driving begins in somewhat of a controlled environment such as a parking lot. I prefer for firearms instruction to begin in a classroom setting. There is more to owning/shooting a gun than pulling the trigger.

I'll hold comment on shooting over the car until I hear the rest of the story! Wink

____________________
Bill
avatar
Spinks

Posts : 46
Join date : 2012-05-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by JoelKizz on Fri May 18, 2012 7:57 pm

Spinks wrote:

I'll hold comment on shooting over the car until I hear the rest of the story! Wink

One word Daniel: "entrapment" Shocked

____________________
Joel Kizzy
avatar
JoelKizz
Admin

Posts : 187
Join date : 2012-02-28
Age : 40
Location : Tuscaloosa, AL

http://thenlive.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by JoelKizz on Fri May 18, 2012 8:06 pm

Spinks wrote:I came across this article today. I know that I've talked guns with at least one member of this forum. In the most civil way possible, how does everyone feel?

http://blog.al.com/archiblog/2012/05/gun_problem_is_a_first_amendme.html

A quote from this article says: "We need to learn again to talk about guns in realistic, honest ways, without all the knee-jerk political baggage. We need to talk safety, and consequences. We need to discuss ways of limiting gun supplies to criminals without threatening the rights of responsible owners."
Call me cynical but I think this goal is a bit of a "non-starter". I just cant imagine a realistic way to eliminate gun ownership by criminals. By definition, the criminals are the people who disregard the laws put in place to limit them. I think we would be better served by training more people to properly defend themselves from criminals. A good place to start would be with random teachers having access to training beforehand and guns in their classroom for defensive purposes. Also eliminating the black market of drug prohibition would go miles in resolving gun related crime (yes.... to me all things political come back to the horrible policy of drug prohibition)

____________________
Joel Kizzy
avatar
JoelKizz
Admin

Posts : 187
Join date : 2012-02-28
Age : 40
Location : Tuscaloosa, AL

http://thenlive.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by JoelKizz on Fri May 18, 2012 8:23 pm

So the pastor in the article says, "Other church leaders might say someone shouldn't do what I did, but I believe the Bible says I should defend myself and my family."
It seems that John Piper would be one of those leaders who disagree. Which view do you think has more scriptural backing or or they both off in a ditch?

____________________
Joel Kizzy
avatar
JoelKizz
Admin

Posts : 187
Join date : 2012-02-28
Age : 40
Location : Tuscaloosa, AL

http://thenlive.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by drainey on Fri May 18, 2012 9:31 pm

`


Last edited by drainey on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

____________________
Daniel
avatar
drainey

Posts : 73
Join date : 2012-03-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by Spinks on Fri May 18, 2012 11:30 pm

JoelKizz wrote:
Spinks wrote:I came across this article today. I know that I've talked guns with at least one member of this forum. In the most civil way possible, how does everyone feel?

http://blog.al.com/archiblog/2012/05/gun_problem_is_a_first_amendme.html

A quote from this article says: "We need to learn again to talk about guns in realistic, honest ways, without all the knee-jerk political baggage. We need to talk safety, and consequences. We need to discuss ways of limiting gun supplies to criminals without threatening the rights of responsible owners."
Call me cynical but I think this goal is a bit of a "non-starter". I just cant imagine a realistic way to eliminate gun ownership by criminals. By definition, the criminals are the people who disregard the laws put in place to limit them. I think we would be better served by training more people to properly defend themselves from criminals. A good place to start would be with random teachers having access to training beforehand and guns in their classroom for defensive purposes. Also eliminating the black market of drug prohibition would go miles in resolving gun related crime (yes.... to me all things political come back to the horrible policy of drug prohibition)

I think that you are on the right track. Criminals are often not rational thinkers but they do understand that getting shot is not a good idea. I believe, and it's probably been documented somewhere or another, that an increase in armed defenses against criminals will show a decrease in violent attempts by the same criminals. Interviews with criminals reveal that a criminal's biggest fear is an armed citizen.

As far as teachers receiving training and being armed in the schools, I also agree. However, in today's society, no school board is going to put their blessing on such a concept. The good news is that currently Alabama law allows a person with a valid pistol permit to carry a concealed gun on a school campus as long as their is no intent to cause harm. The intention of self defense is perfectly viable. The pistol packing teacher concept comes down the the individual teacher weighing the consequences of carrying a legal firearm at work and the possibility of violating workplace policy. To me, concealed means just that. Hidden from view. What "they" don't know won't hurt them.

____________________
Bill
avatar
Spinks

Posts : 46
Join date : 2012-05-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by Spinks on Fri May 18, 2012 11:47 pm

JoelKizz wrote:So the pastor in the article says, "Other church leaders might say someone shouldn't do what I did, but I believe the Bible says I should defend myself and my family."
It seems that John Piper would be one of those leaders who disagree. Which view do you think has more scriptural backing or or they both off in a ditch?

I'll go down this path:

Compare a sword to a gun. They are both tools that may be used in offensive and defensive acts. They may also be used for hunting. Guns didn't exist in Biblical times so we must find the next best thing when searching for scripture. I think that the sword is our best option.

Gen. 3:24 An Angel with a flaming sword is placed at the east of the garden of Eden to guard the way to the tree of life. Angels have swords. Why not us?

Luke 22:36 Jesus instructs those without a sword to sell our cloak and buy one. Pretty clear to me.

Luke 22: the Disciples ask Jesus if they should strike with a sword when Jesus is betrayed. Surely, if Jesus didn't want his followers carrying swords he would have said so...

cheers

____________________
Bill
avatar
Spinks

Posts : 46
Join date : 2012-05-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by JoelKizz on Mon May 21, 2012 12:32 am

Yet in John 18 Jesus commands Peter to put his sword away after slashing off the ear of Malcus the slave. (I think Luke even records Jesus then heals the ear Peter cuts off). So I think two things are clear:
1- Jesus ordered his disciples to be armed
2- Jesus did not want weapons used to try to prevent his crucifixion or to prevent "the cup" that he was to drink.

That doesn't at first glance jump to any startling conclusions about whether or not Christians should use weapons in self-defense. (Especially considering their state of readiness to stand before their creator in contrast to the assumed state of the assailant)
My initial reaction is that I should be willing to protect my family with all of my might but be willing to lay my own life willingly if I was alone. .... That is just initial gut check though... I certainly may react differently if mugged tomorrow morning walking into 2420.

I think this is a topic worthy of scriptural analysis.

____________________
Joel Kizzy
avatar
JoelKizz
Admin

Posts : 187
Join date : 2012-02-28
Age : 40
Location : Tuscaloosa, AL

http://thenlive.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by JoelKizz on Mon May 21, 2012 12:34 am

Also Spinks, you need a kickin awesome avatar to go with your kickin awesome insights!

____________________
Joel Kizzy
avatar
JoelKizz
Admin

Posts : 187
Join date : 2012-02-28
Age : 40
Location : Tuscaloosa, AL

http://thenlive.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by Jeremyshall on Mon May 21, 2012 9:17 am

Joel, how far does the concept of protecting your family go? If you are alone, on the street, and you allow someone to kill you, are you protecting your family in that? This is, of course, given, that you could have stopped them by shooting first. Are you not protecting your family by staying alive?

____________________
Jeremy
avatar
Jeremyshall

Posts : 102
Join date : 2012-03-02
Age : 42

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by JoelKizz on Mon May 21, 2012 9:28 am

Jeremyshall wrote:Joel, how far does the concept of protecting your family go? If you are alone, on the street, and you allow someone to kill you, are you protecting your family in that? This is, of course, given, that you could have stopped them by shooting first. Are you not protecting your family by staying alive?
I too thought of that perspective... Which is why I'm kinda unclear on the issue. I'm trying to balance "protecting" my family with the selfless death of those in the early church. Is there a difference between martyrdom and random violence in the way in which we should respond?

____________________
Joel Kizzy
avatar
JoelKizz
Admin

Posts : 187
Join date : 2012-02-28
Age : 40
Location : Tuscaloosa, AL

http://thenlive.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by Jeremyshall on Mon May 21, 2012 2:58 pm

http://www.biblicalselfdefense.com/
I think there is enough scripture presented on this page alone to at least make the case that there is a difference between the two. For me, I don't see where the martyr had a choice in the matter. They were presenting the gospel and suffered...which I understand. But to say that that is the same thing as being attacked by a lawless man, intent on harming you or your family doesn't compare, for me. In addition, If you make the case that we are to treat them the same, then you would not then also be able to say that you will protect your family in the situation. If lawless aggression is the same as being martyred for Christ, then you have no basis for familial protection. Would you take away the honor that God is bestowing on your wife or child in that moment?

____________________
Jeremy
avatar
Jeremyshall

Posts : 102
Join date : 2012-03-02
Age : 42

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by Spinks on Mon May 21, 2012 9:17 pm

JoelKizz wrote:Also Spinks, you need a kickin awesome avatar to go with your kickin awesome insights!

I'm afraid that my avatar will physically crush the server that supports this site. Not just crash it internally.

I'll try to find something that both man and machine can handle without fear of demise.

Laughing Laughing Laughing

____________________
Bill
avatar
Spinks

Posts : 46
Join date : 2012-05-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by Spinks on Mon May 21, 2012 9:28 pm

I'm with JSHall on this. Being martyred for one's spiritual beliefs is far from being murdered by a lawless thug. The lawless thug likely doesn't give a flying fart about your or Jesus. The thug is worth defending yourself against for the sake of your continuation of the Gospel and the welfare of your family. We, as Christians, should face the firing squad, gallows, or hooded swordsman while fully proclaiming Christ as our Lord.

The fact that I am a miserable failure where spreading the Gospel is concerned doesn't prevent me from defending myself so that I can seek God's will. I certainly don't want some demon possessed thug to end my life before God is finished with me! Wink

____________________
Bill
avatar
Spinks

Posts : 46
Join date : 2012-05-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by Spinks on Mon May 21, 2012 9:37 pm

JoelKizz wrote:... I certainly may react differently if mugged tomorrow morning walking into 2420.

Rule #1 of a gun fight: Have a gun.

____________________
Bill
avatar
Spinks

Posts : 46
Join date : 2012-05-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by Jeremyshall on Tue May 22, 2012 8:46 am

Spinks wrote:
JoelKizz wrote:... I certainly may react differently if mugged tomorrow morning walking into 2420.

Rule #1 of a gun fight: Have a gun.

Fantastic!

____________________
Jeremy
avatar
Jeremyshall

Posts : 102
Join date : 2012-03-02
Age : 42

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by JoelKizz on Fri May 25, 2012 3:38 pm

Jeremyshall wrote:
Spinks wrote:
JoelKizz wrote:... I certainly may react differently if mugged tomorrow morning walking into 2420.

Rule #1 of a gun fight: Have a gun.

Fantastic!

Im always packing the heat baby!

____________________
Joel Kizzy
avatar
JoelKizz
Admin

Posts : 187
Join date : 2012-02-28
Age : 40
Location : Tuscaloosa, AL

http://thenlive.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Guns

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum