How Should We Then Live?

Guns

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Re: Guns

Post by JoelKizz on Fri May 25, 2012 4:19 pm

Ok Ive done some reading through the passages in the NT regarding swords and have reached some possible solutions.

First in Luke 22 we read:
"Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied."

Here I think the context of the sword purchasing is clearly tied to His question about the disciples earlier time of going out when they were instructed to take nothing. In essence, Jesus is saying "there was a time when all provision was brought to you but now you guys are going to have to be prepared for missions in different ways. Where before all was simply given, now some preparation for missionary work (including defense from common enemies is appropriate).

So why then the rebuke of Jesus towards Peter in Matthew 26 in which he states, "Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword." Here I think Jesus is rebuking two things, one specific and one general.
First specifically (and most clearly in my opinion) He is condemning the use of force or weaponry in the spreading of the Gospel (i.e. the crusades). Secondly, He is condemning the use of weapons as a lifestyle in which weapons are propagated often in daily life. This may have been more clearly seen in centuries past (or in other countries) that exist without the blessing of law and order that we live under.

I guess my final conclusion (for now) is that weapons ought to be viewed very similarly to the way we view money. Money is seen in scripture as a very dangerous thing. A thing not to be sought but rather to use responsibly when it is given. Similarly weapons are not wrong to own or use in certain circumstances. However, a lifestyle that promotes improper use of weapons or the improper use of weapons for spreading the gospel is prohibited by scripture.

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Re: Guns

Post by Spinks on Sat May 26, 2012 5:51 pm

JoelKizz wrote:


So why then the rebuke of Jesus towards Peter in Matthew 26 in which he states, "Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword." Here I think Jesus is rebuking two things, one specific and one general.
First specifically (and most clearly in my opinion) He is condemning the use of force or weaponry in the spreading of the Gospel (i.e. the crusades). Secondly, He is condemning the use of weapons as a lifestyle in which weapons are propagated often in daily life. This may have been more clearly seen in centuries past (or in other countries) that exist without the blessing of law and order that we live under.


I think that Jesus is also referring to Peter's lack of faith at the moment. In verses 53-54 we see, "53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?” I think that Jesus is trying to convey to Peter that Jesus doesn't need defending at this point in time because a) God the Father is more than capable of defending Christ the Son. b) This moment is necessary to fulfill scripture.

How does this relate to weapons in general? I think that when we look at the totality of our study of the subject we can be safe in thinking that Christ certainly allows a time and place for the individual use of weapons for self defense.

Evil is our enemy. Spiritual warfare is real. An angel is not always around when we are confronted by demons. So, I believe that we should, based on my reading of scripture, be prepared to defend ourselves against our adversaries.

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Re: Guns

Post by JoelKizz on Sat May 26, 2012 10:00 pm

Spinks wrote:

I think that Jesus is also referring to Peter's lack of faith at the moment. In verses 53-54 we see, "53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?” I think that Jesus is trying to convey to Peter that Jesus doesn't need defending at this point in time because a) God the Father is more than capable of defending Christ the Son. b) This moment is necessary to fulfill scripture.

Excellent point!

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Re: Guns

Post by Jeremyshall on Sat May 26, 2012 11:18 pm

Joel, you stated "Secondly, He is condemning the use of weapons as a lifestyle in which weapons are propagated often in daily life. This may have been more clearly seen in centuries past (or in other countries) that exist without the blessing of law and order that we live under." I was thinking about this and it hit me, isn't this the exact life our police live? A life of weapons, daily in use... They do this so we don't necessarily have to, but it is still done for us. Not sure where this goes, just a thought.

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Re: Guns

Post by JoelKizz on Sat May 26, 2012 11:53 pm

Jeremyshall wrote:Joel, you stated "Secondly, He is condemning the use of weapons as a lifestyle in which weapons are propagated often in daily life. This may have been more clearly seen in centuries past (or in other countries) that exist without the blessing of law and order that we live under." I was thinking about this and it hit me, isn't this the exact life our police live? A life of weapons, daily in use... They do this so we don't necessarily have to, but it is still done for us. Not sure where this goes, just a thought.

Yeah i guess in a sense they do but I meant more someone who is driven with the desire to use weapons as a show of "power" or the use with the hopes of obtaining such power. I think that type of "flaunting" or even "threatening" use of weapons would not be appropriate for the Christian. Again, in our country I don't think this type of person would be very prevalent (with the exception of the inner city gang culture- I assume)

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Re: Guns

Post by Spinks on Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:26 am

In honor of this thread, my avatar is me with a gun!



And just for giggles...


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Re: Guns

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