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New Perspective on Paul

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New Perspective on Paul

Post by JoelKizz on Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:54 pm

Any merit to this view? Why or why not?

Paul, especially in his Epistle to the Romans, advocates justification through faith in Jesus Christ over justification through works of the Law. In the old perspective, Paul was understood to be arguing that Christians' good works would not factor into their salvation, only their faith. According to the new perspective, Paul was questioning only observances such as circumcision and dietary laws, not good works in general.

some more links on the issue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Perspective_on_Paul
http://www.theopedia.com/New_Perspective_on_Paul
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/august/13.22.html
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Re: New Perspective on Paul

Post by Schenck13 on Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:28 am

I have a new perspective on taking a dump. It's not that I am excreting feces, but poop is actually getting rid of me, you see. My turd's longings to be in the sewer with it's friends are only hindered by being carried around in my rectum.

Serious question, what are good works? If God is not served by human hands as if He needed anything, then what is it that I need to daily set out to do, in order to be, biblically, doing good works?

And where are all those non-believers that set out to do bad works? Most non-Christian people I talk to do as much, or more "good" as everybody else.

This perspective is birthed out of the need to put some sort of conditions on God's favor. That we might put Him in our debt so that he can bless us with what we pray for. I find it (works-based faith) to be almost the standard of theology that is ingrained in our flesh, it naturally flows directly from a sinner's need to bride the gap between ourselves and a Holy God. And if we can somehow figure out how to justify actions that we can actually do, we never have to address just how short we come up. Most evangelicals are searching for what they can do to get in God's good graces, and this doctrine will only help to pervert minds right to hell.

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Re: New Perspective on Paul

Post by JoelKizz on Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:31 pm

While I agree with much of your statement, especially your last paragrapgh, this statement intrigues me:

Schenck13 wrote:
And where are all those non-believers that set out to do bad works? Most non-Christian people I talk to do as much, or more "good" as everybody else.

Isnt this a bit of an indictment against the body? Should'nt a people who have been redeemed from such a terrible condition through gratitude to their Savior "outshine" a world trapped by wicked effections? Shouldnt our works make people declare, "Behold, how they love one another."?

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Re: New Perspective on Paul

Post by Schenck13 on Tue May 01, 2012 11:18 pm

And here is the treachery of discerning between being chief among sinners, saved by Grace & being holy, blameless, and set apart, striving to do those works. And how those two lie doctrinally, consciously, spiritually make up a big part of the Christian walk. It is not the church body that has failed it, it is the heads, pastors, seminary professors, and leaders and elders have been the blind leading the blind for a big part of "evangelism" in this country. Our gospel call is Church Camp, and then comfortable programming in the pulpit on Sunday, with perhaps the same "church camp easy believism" alter call sprinkled in from time to time.

People in the pews have not heard the Gospel. The hard call of denial and submission, to Jesus, and to God through His word. The fear of the Lord either drives men to acknowledge that they probably hate most aspects of the Gospel, or it drives you to believe that is not true, and that you're doing okay, THAT is what the proclaimers have done, they have told people that they are okay. Terrible. The joy of what small holiness I have felt the Lord bless me with, poured from the Grace that told me I was not okay.

My big belief is that you can't really be wholly satisfied in the Cross, until you realize He came for your utter wickedness, and His Glory, not bubbly, cute us. And He did it for you, at your worst, in the deepest, secretive, sinful areas of heart and mind. Not cleaned up us, that He will be happy with, He Glories in the same Jesus and the same Cross.

From acknowledgement of depravity flows the ability to understand grace driven effort, that makes us the Moon. With no light of our own, we reflect the One who speaks light.

Making photons God's vocal waves. Pretty flipin' sweet.

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Re: New Perspective on Paul

Post by JoelKizz on Sat May 05, 2012 12:56 pm

Schenck13 wrote:
From acknowledgement of depravity flows the ability to understand grace driven effort
I could not agree more with this statement. While the depths of God's goodness is limitless and something I will never understand fully, I at least have no disagreement in my soul over the "concept." However, in looking at my own wickedness - this I rail against constantly.

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Re: New Perspective on Paul

Post by Jeremyshall on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:11 am

I would like to resurrect this thread a bit...I heard this argument used the other day in response to the Chik-fil-A kerfuffle. They stated that Paul's view on Homosexuality was legalistic and in contradiction to Christ's view. Basically, it was presented that if Christ had an issue with it, He would have made a bold statement about it. Have you guys seen this?

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